קישור לפודקאסט - https://open.spotify.com/episode/54Tsuyck8FkoSgXAEaHCmM?si=_mXrNPDtSrayQEyp40JTeg&fbclid=IwAR22jaaOtCgh4hxFEkfBshtCcVr6xHH5my7zYjIyUttxSTyaP2F7Kf6RCRI&nd=1